What a terrific, insightful piece of reporting. The Patch just proved it delivers better information than the Pioneer Press.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. YES! I definitely want to know what the candidates think about this. Hopefully, your question will be posed in a very PUBLIC forum, where even more people will discover they're subsidizing golf they never play. Because, you know, all those underprivileged impoverished golfers need subsidies from taxpayers.

Sonny,

With all due respect, who really cares what you think! I am a homeowner in Fort Sheridan and when I purchased my house, it was promised that we would have our own golf course. I really couldn't give a rats @$$ about how much it is costing and what the subsidy per round is.

If you don't want to pay for something that you don't use, my suggestion is that you give up your ridiculous pass times of nature walks and bird watching and take up golf. That way you will enjoy the full benefits of the outdoors and the low price of playing a round on a public

I also want to put out a big THANK YOU to Mayor Belsky. He is one of the only public officials who is sticking up for the rights of the golfing community. Fishermen get subsidized piers, kids get subsidized playgrounds, we all pay for schools so that the kids in Highwood can go for free. Its about time that we actually get something for ourselves.

If the golf courses lose money is a sign of the times. The same argument used for Port Clinton can be used for golf courses in Highland Park. If port clinton is the "jewel" of Highland Park that attracts people from all over the north shore, then HP golf courses are the entire jewel store. The ones that lose money need to do a better job with marketing, staffing and generally being more friendly toward outsiders coming in. People living in evanston, and the north side are dying for a place to golf. I've met the die hards who drive 15-20 miles to HP to golf. The demand is there, Sonny. As for Fort Sheridan, I'm sick everytime I drive by and see what happened to that old course which was the only place I felt welcome to play when I was 18-20 taking up the game. Maybe now is not the best time to start building a new course, but lets not shut the door on a possible lake front public course which would be completely unique (kind of like Port clinton Square). I don't think a hiking trail would be any more profitable.By the way they do a great job at the Deerfield Golf and LEARNING CENTER. Our courses also serve as a place for our High School and younger children to play. So all of the lost revenue is not necessarily lost, Sonny. Pictures of bulldozers plowing into animals really show that you are attacking golf in general, and not necessarily sharing your "vision" to help Highland Park remain the "jewel" that it is!

Bill,

I understand you long for the good ole days. However, the golf facts are not on your side. The demand for golf is not there. Golf rounds played are diminishing every year. The die hards are dying and there are fewer entering their ranks. That's not an opinion. That's data. There is simply an under-supply of golfers and an over-supply of golf courses. Building a new golf course at public expense is ridiculous. And city council candidates are playing a mischievous game of redirection to keep our eye off this real financial burden.

Recently, another "unique" Lake Michigan lakefront golf course, Squires Country Club near Belgium, Wisconsin, closed after 80 years of successful operation. It is one of many being plowed under for either development or open space. These golf courses may have been jewels in their day but today they are merely debt. The land, however, remains a jewel which can be re-purposed for a larger population at a lower cost of development and maintenance.

@Ed Brill,

Thank you for stepping in but I am dead serious. When I bought my house, I was promised a world class golf course and I couldn't care less about the prairie, the birds or the cost of building the course. The homeowners in Fort Sheridan are entitled to our golf course. If it isn't a golf course as originally agreed, then give it back to the Army. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but if we can't have what was originally promised to us then the birders and the walkers and the beach people shouldn't have it either.

If I play golf a couple of times a year, that would be a lot, and then generally on the eastern shore of the US (with grade school chums). I played at HPCC once, and I do not live in Fort Sheridan. This having been said, aren't purchases that are made by anyone for any goods or services done with the knowledge known to exist at the time; if otherwise, it is done on risk of what the future holds (and there are businesses for those who like to gamble this way). None can predict the future at the time of acquisition; could anyone generally predict the fall of Wall Street or a Bernie Madoff, or the AIG debacle, etc?. A proper inquiry should be, was the acquisition at issue here done negligently, or intentionally in order to deceive? Another would be, was the acquisition reasonably undertaken given all considerations at the time? Only after these questions are answered can any debate or dialogue with any validity take place (not sniping, bickering or whining like kids in a sandbox might display). As for the local movie house, last I read, over 62,000 patrons visited that venue last year, and had a positive economic impact of over $1.2M for HP (folks go elsewhere for dinner after a movie, for example). Isn't the movie house versus the golf course discussion in the article and comments vis-a-vis economics like comparing apples to oranges?

Sonny, "these golf courses"......So your argument goes beyond just Ft Sheridan. I understand Sunset and HPCC are losing money. So are the movie theaters. I don't go to movies much, nor do I hang out at PT Clinton on weekend nights. But I understand that many people like it. I don't attack their choice of enjoyment, and I don't want them attacking mine. Golf Course operators need to re- think how they do business just like any other business. Teach the game. Have more outings. Sell golf merchandise at an affordable rate, instead of having a useless dusty pro shop with overpriced items. Generally speaking Golf is an incredibly positive experience for a young kid (something I wasn't fortunate to have). Talk about role models! Look at a list of the top 100 sports related charities. 97 or so of them are professional golfers. Many of them raise more for charity than they earn playing the game. When you learn to play golf, you learn how to live life. One of those things is to never quit on something when the times get rough. Golf is not dying any more than the arts or theater is. But go ahead and give it your best shot. I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I don't think the candidates are being mischievious. Maybe they have more "vision" than you. I'll be working with them to help revitalize our great golf courses. And we all long for the good ole days, Sonny. Don't pretend you don't too. You just don't like golf.

You search all the way up the shoreline to Wisconsin to find an example that supports your argument. Ignoring anything that does not. That is not journalism. That is called being close minded as you already have your mind made up as you do more research. It is my understanding that you are not a journalist for patch, just a guy with an opinion (one that states it over and over again for all to hear). Please recall that I started out agreeing with you that we do not need another course at this time. Which shows my open mindedness as I love to play new courses. But you want total 100% agreement! It's Sonny's way or the highway. Sonny knows best, so please all listen to Sonny the journalist as he assesses the candidates for us all. Your also repeating the same facts over and over again as if I don't understand what my $22,400 in annual taxes goes toward. The economy will recover. Lets not shut everything down in the meantime. Especially the "jewels" of Highland Park.

This is Forest Barbieri, candidate for HP Park District commission 6 year term. (6 Years, because the Commission has failed to address this ridiculously long term.) I am well aware of the fiscal implications of the proposed Fort Sheridan golf course as well as the deficit financing of the current golf courses under park and city control.

To create another golf course in today’s economy with a shrinking pool golfers would simply be bad judgment and poor fiscal management. Having attended several board meetings and the Golf community advisory meeting, we need to look at ways to support this segment of our constituency without taking monies from other programs to do so. We need something that the Park District is without.....a PLAN. Part of that plan is how we decrease the deficit of the courses already managed by the City and Park District while still serving that segment of our community.

We waste $50,000 on architectural drawings for a 3,000 sq ft Rosewood Beach Pavilion that now is a do over with additional costs. Sorry, that would lead me into other subjects......

Sonny, thanks for admitting that you are not reporting for Patch. Because I was waiting for you to correct the person who commented earlier that was under the impression that you were. You wouldn't want anyone to be misled im sure :-)

I just read 3 or 4 articles on the global growth of the game of golf. South Korea, Argentina and China (to name a few) are places where golf is booming at an incredible rate. Did you know it has been added to the olympics? This can only be attributed to one thing. Economic growth. This country is in a severe recession. So golf is down. When the economy recovers so will golf and our two remaining historic public courses. Sonny, you are using this as an excuse to turn our "jewels" into parks. I'll be rallying up all the golfers to fight this the best we can. Thanks for waking me up to your attack on golf, which is alive and well.

@Bill,

If your level of knowledge about this topic wasn't so limited, your post would actually be funny. Instead, it is just sad. Since Highland Park isn't in China, Korea or Argentina, your point is laughably irrelevant. Had you read all of the articles, you would have learned that golf has been in a very serious decline for nearly ten years. The steepest declines were in the early years and only recently did the rate of decline start to taper off. When I last checked, the recession has been with us for slightly over two years. Oddly, the rate of decline in these years is much lower than was the rate of decline in the preceding boom years.

The math supporting a new golf course just doesn't add up. Yours is just another lame attempt to twist the facts into and argument that supports golf. In fact, golf is a bad idea for all of the taxpayers of Lake County and an especially bad idea for the residents and taxpayers in Highland Park, Lake Forest and Lake Bluff. If you, Ed Brill and that pompous idiot Ima Golfer want to golf, do it on your own dime and don't expect the rest of us to subsidize your pass time.

Eric, My points about the other countries were most certainly relevant in response to Sonny's argument that golf is dying. They were relevant in that people play golf when the economy is good. I am in agreement that a new golf course is a bad idea right now (for the fourth time). I'm arguing to protect the two historic public courses we have left. I will continue to do so. You'll find out that public golf will not be taken away from this community any time soon. It was a respectful and dignified discussion until now.

Bill,

I hope that Highland Park can sustain its golf program. The great sport is not dying, but many of those who have supported the sport are. And with an over supply of golf courses – or if you prefer – and under supply of golfers, we don’t need another course at Fort Sheridan placing additional financial pressure on our existing operations. I believe we agree more than disagree.

My crystal ball is probably as cloudy as yours. But the authorities of golf marketing say lifestyle trends, not the economy, are creating a reduction in golf rounds played. And there is no indication this trend will be reversed. A mistake was made in mandating a golf course forever. It was a shortsighted error made by well-intentioned people almost 20 years ago. Our government must have the flexibility to control where and how it spends our money. And today that is not on an unneeded golf course

You and I both grew up playing the Evanston par 3, Billy Caldwell and other municipal courses. My beef is not with golf. It is with the costs of development and maintenance of the proposed course without the ability to sustain what we have let alone another one. Highland Park is already leaning toward closing one of its two municipal courses. This may happen regardless. But building a course at Fort Sheridan will almost certainly be the nail in the coffin.

Yes, Sonny, building more golf courses when the others are struggling is a bad idea. Why do you continue lobbying that point to me? We agreed on that at 10 am this morning. I would hate to think you're trying to label me as a new golf course supporter to help your dead argument. Highland Park is not leaning toward closing one of the other public courses. They are looking into ways to restore them to profitability. If they were leaning that way already, you wouldn't be spending so much time repeating yourself. If such an obvious mistake was made with the language on a deed, it would be a simple correction. You wouldn't need to work so hard trying to convince people that you've got the right idea. Here's how I see it. You want more parks (subsidized by tax dollars, with no chance of turning a profit). I want to preserve the historic golf courses that were here since before I was born (which have recent struggles just like the theaters but have a good chance at turning a profit when the economic growth returns). Thank you for a respectful discussion. We are both passionate about this great city of ours.

@Bill,

There continues to be a flaw in your logic. The decline in golf playership and the decline in the economy are not related. Over the past ten years, most of those were up years in the economy but down years for golf as an industry. The decline in golf is a social issue and not an economic one. That said, golf isn't going away now or at any point in the foreseeable future. I can't see where anyone has proposed that we pull the plug on all public courses. Although the fiscal conservative in me wants to do this it won't happen.

If you want to preserve the existing courses by restoring them to profitability, building another one at Fort Sheridan is a bad idea. Do we agree on that point?